New Tasting Notes

Is this a liquid tea concentrate? I am trying to understand the river water you mentioned.

No, that was just some of the only English text that was printed on the package. It’s just mao feng style (long and wirey) green tea leaf.

10-15 cold brews left, wow! I don’t remember the cost at all, but it seemed reasonable with the exchange rate.

I bet Ashman is going to want the Fortnum refill again. I might be interested in the F&M sachet calendar if it is different this year. You have me curious about the Dammann one. I looked up some old ones and they seem to be good offerings of mostly teas I would enjoy.

Dammann is definitely my favorite, they tend to change it up rather nicely each year, plus it usually has any new teas they’ve released. I haven’t tried the Fortnum sachet version yet, that might be a thought for this year.

I liked it the one time I got it! There were some teas in the sachet calendar that were not in the refill tin calendar.

I tried one of these Te Ji tuos and enjoyed it, but it was only 3 or 4 years old. I’ll have to grab an older one sometime to see the difference the aging will make.

@Keemunlover, Another option is to switch over to Shou, as they supposedly simulate aging. Personally, I find them completely different from Shengs, and both can be enjoyable! But even the occasional 40 yr old shengs I’ve sipped were very different from shou. Oh well.

Yeah, I occasionally drink shou, which is nice sometimes. I prefer the character of sheng overall. I like the qualities it shares with green tea and black tea, and I love the florals and brighter notes which typically seem to be lacking in shous.

Do you add sugar or just milk? I can’t remember ever having a chamomile latte!

Thank you, @rosebudmelissa, for reminding me of chamomile! I luv chamomile, and wonder why such a simple tisane makes me warm & fuzzy. Could it be because of childhood storytime, with tales of Peter Rabbit or Winnie The Pooh, which were read to me?

I prefer my tea unsweetened or lightly sweetened so no sugar in this. I added a few ice cubes, a small splash of heavy cream, and some almond milk. I’m not sure if sweetener would being out some flavors or overwhelm the chamomile as it is a mild flavor.

I think I discovered chamomile in college. I would drink it when I needed a few minutes of relaxation in the midst of a busy day or when I was sick. My mom would make peppermint tea for me as a child sometimes so peppermint has my childhood nostalgia attached. But I still find chamomile a very cozy sort of tea.

That must have been disappointing! Is blackberry leaf a source of sweetness? Or were the apple and carrot ingredients making it so sweet?

I’m sure it was partially from both, but yes, blackberry leaf has a cloying sweet taste similar to stevia. Tea companies sometimes add it as a sweetener.

Fascinating! I never knew…

Perhaps not a “need”, but… certainly nice that you can luxuriate with cuppa after cuppa!

Kind of perfumy, too – Some rose florals, which I am a sucker for.

Steep #4 (16oz of water at 195° for 5 minutes) – Pushed it probably as far as it will go, but still a worthwhile steep. More of the same notes.

I have never bothered to weigh my samples and tuo cha and such. I wonder if a big difference in the humidity could account for the weight discrepancy? It the air very dry where you are? Could it have been weighed in a very humid environment? I am not sure how much variance that would create, either.

Also, I plan to weigh my little bits and see how they compare!

About as dry as can be, where I am located – Las Vegas, NV. So yes, that could be it.

That being said, the 941 mini I drank the day before weighed in at 6.99 grams, which was in my expected range.

I think you may want to manage your expectations somewhat. Firstly, you reported only two data points, one of which was virtually spot-on, so a valid statistical treatment is difficult. With a greater number of measurements, made on multiple days with NIST-calibrated equipment that is verified daily, we might begin to consider the statistics. (I have worked as a scientist doing exactly this kind of thing in a quality-managed, audited, and ISO 17025 accredited environment, so I know what I’m talking about.)

Humidity aside, moisture content can be a factor, and if manufactured and portioned when the leaf was at 7% moisture, after which the tea spent time in a dry environment, it could easily have dropped to 2% moisture, a difference of 5 percentage points in weight. That is reasonable, and means a +/– of 0.35g for these minis, which is many times more than your expectation. Furthermore, statistical variance increases as numbers decrease, and 7g is not very much, given the heterogeneity of agricultural products and their tendency to stratify in handling (leaves, stems, and buds may all differ in weight density per unit volume, even when milled to a fine texture, owing to biological differences in oil, moisture, protein and starch partitioning along with wood density). Furthermore, in a production environment, weighing of product takes considerable labor time, so while high precision might be achievable in a laboratory situation on a given balance, achieving that same precision can be more challenging in a production line, with small weight targets. An overall +/– 10% error would not be unreasonable.

So by the time the material variably dries and reaches you, the variance could be as much as 15%, or +/– 1.05g, which is a full gram greater than your expectation. As you continue to measure your minis from w2t, you should find that the average weight begins to match the manufacturer’s claim, assuming your balance is calibrated and verified daily, and that your tea is stored stably so that it neither absorbs nor loses moisture over time. You would also need to analyze the progression of your measurements for evidence of drift and bias, and control the work environment for drafts, temperature and humidity vibration stability, static electricity, levelness of the balance, and cleanliness of your pan and tools. If those conditions are met and you are still dissatisfied with the observed variance after 20 or more measurements, then you might contact the vendor and enquire what tolerance their QMS permits, and what recourse you could have. But believe me, customers love to sue over this sort of thing, so vendors are pretty careful to document everything. You should, too.

TeaEarlGreyHot – Naw, I’m not filing a lawsuit, and I’m definitely not doing all that stuff you are talking about, LOL! Good point about the 15% up there, not that I have the knowledge to understand all of that, but I’ll take your word for it. I am going to continue measuring in my imperfect way out of curiousity, though.

@Kee: yeah, I understand! It really IS a lot of work to analyze and document this sort of thing to stand up to careful examination, which is why food manufacturers routinely send production line samples out to expensive labs where people like me are trained and prepared to make the careful analyses!

I mean, I know my scale must be fairly accurate considering that other things I have tested have measured more or less what they should.

That sounds like a pretty cool job, TeaEarlGreyHot!

TeaEarleGreyHot said it in a MUCH more thorough and well explained way than I would have, but I also immediately that the thought reading your note that approx. a half gram of moisture loss for a tea pressed in 2018 seemed normal to me. Now, if it was pressed in the last year or so I would definitely raise an eyebrow though lol

We love to experiment in this house! Before I knew we were going to have a thorough scientific explanation from TeaEarleGreyHot, I decided to weigh some of my tuos.

I started with my Oxo kitchen scale – far from lab quality equipment but fairly accurate, I thought. My tuo cha were not marked with any promised weight, but I thought it was reasonable to assume that they would be about the same weight as each other. Using the Oxo scale, there was so much variation even weighing the SAME TUO multiple times, that I gave up and got out my Upton Tea scale which is intended for much lighter weight.

Now when a tuo was measured multiple times the weight varied not at all or by very small amounts. HOWEVER, the range of weights for the different tuo cha were quite variable! These were made together, packaged together, and stored together. They varied from 4.6 grams to 6.4 grams, with most of them weighing between 5.6 -5.8 grams. I never even considered that there would be much variation! Those were from Floating Leaves Tea.

I repeated the test weighing foil wrapped rice ripened puerh minis from Upton and they were far more likely to be within .1 to .2 grams of each other. Very little variation.

I don’t think it will change my method as far as preparing the tea for my little home sessions, but it was interesting! Thank you, Keemunlover, for bringing this to light and giving me a chance to experiment and learn! I never even considered weighing the tuos, but then I also never weigh or measure my puerh. I generally just eyeball and adjust as needed as I go.

I’ve weighed my loose teas for a long time now, because I noticed it was very difficult to eyeball the correct amounts. Especially if you brew a lot of different varieties of tea.5 grams of black tea might fill a tablespoon, but 5 grams of a large leaf white tea could fill maybe 1/2 a cup. So to make my brewing more consistent, and to avoid wasting tea, I decided to start weighing it out. And do it was kind of natural for me to check up on the weight of these tea minis when I started experimenting with them.

@ashmanra, well done, in your explorations! Sometimes it can be a deflating experience to find that reality doesn’t match our assumptions or expectations. But what really matters is that we are able to reliably prepare acceptable infusions, which can also include the variables of water quality and temperature. This is why cooking can be largely an art. With pu-erh tea cakes, the makers try to make a pretty-appearing product, and may put large intact leaves and bud sets on the surface, with smaller chop and bits inside, and so taking a small portion from the cake can lead to great variation in tea properties, as smaller bits can age faster, while large bud sets can have entirely different flavors and aromas. Counterproductively, the more care one takes in selecting pieces and flakes of a tea cake, the greater the variation can be. I am sure industry insiders like @Roswell Strange could spend hours explaining the ins and outs of tea blending, but must also take care that they don’t give impressions that discourage tea drinkers or negatively impact sales, since every company faces the same challenges. Again my favorite example is the humble Lipton black tea bag, which has remained remarkably consistent over many decades — and it is no accident! Ditto Bigelow’s Constant Comment, which I have been drinking for some 50 years.

@Keemunlover, raised a great point that not every tea measures the same, spoonful by spoonful. Heck, not even every household cook knows or cares about the difference between a teaspoon and a tablespoon, and may assume their dining utensils are actually calibrated, which just ain’t so. Again, it’s art vs. science, and what matters is the palatable (and nutritious) end product. I think all these variations can overwhelm folks, and is one reason the labeled directions remain vague. It can be cruel to imply that exacting proportions are needed when the end user has no exacting measuring devices, timers, and water quality. And yet it can seem cavalier to direct using “enough leaf, water, heat and time to create a good-tasting cup”. And yet, that is precisely the best instruction!

The TeaHouse Ghost said in a video “the tea will tell you” when he was steeping gong fu. Those are daunting words for a newbie! The tea speaks? How will I know what it is saying? But after a number of sessions your nose is trained to pick up high notes that warn of astringency if mishandled and other messages. And just when you think you really know how to steep your tea, one comes along and surprises you.

I do occasionally measure by weight. Whole leaf teas, white teas like shou mei, a long tai ping or a dragonwell…these required me to weigh at first but then I felt that I could eyeball it and get approximately the right amount of leaf for the vessel in use. Teas that were new to me also would get a weigh in for the first session or two.
Perhaps I should get my scale out more often.

CTC or smaller broken leaf tea I just measure by the teaspoon.

It is interesting how different drinkers measure their tea. My dad insists on using a scale. I decide how sleepy I am in the morning and brew accordingly, sometimes I get too strong of a brew, but I am awake.

Michelle – that is a oerfectly good way to measure your tea! :D

@ashmanra, your Christmas Miracle story is wonderful! I love figs. So much so that I buy them both fresh and dried and eat them as-is. But I keep hearing of terrific fig teas and maybe this will be the one I plunge for. Thanks for your report!

I checked my fig bush today and it has very few figs on it, still not ripe. Will this be the year the squirrels don’t steal them all before I get even one? We shall see. If I get enough, I am making jam, just for me! Ashman tolerates fig flavor in tea but doesn’t like figs or fig jam.

For whatever it’s worth; Paul (the owner of w2t) has been pretty publicly anti-fascism, anti-Trump, and anti-capitalist. Before he started w2t he was studying visual art and he designs all the cake wraps himself. So even though some of the tea names/wrappers are fairly brazen and outlandish, there’s actually quite a few that are really thinly veiled tongue-in-cheek reflections of his views too.

This is one of my favourites: https://white2tea.com/products/2016-we-go-high?pos=1&psq=we+go+high&ss=e&v=1.0

As well as this one: https://white2tea.com/products/2020-good-man-in-a-storm?pos=2&_sid=0644af02f&ss=r

Supposedly the name of the company comes from a conversation he had where someone in China was teasing him for being a white guy so passionate about tea. Something like “too white to drink tea” which eventually because “white2tea”.

He’s not the main focus of this older article, but there is some interesting stuff in it about his background and philosophy towards how he sells his products: https://www.saveur.com/pu-erh-chinese-tea/

Sorry for the info dump – I just feel like it’s easy to miss some of those details about the company if you’re not looking for them or on the same social platforms he’s active on.

Thank you for sharing that, Ros! I have never ordered from them, but I will soon! I am late to the party, too.

@Roswell Strange, Thanks, I just knew there had to be more to the story! Can’t say as I’ve ever tried any w2t products, tho’ I may explore some samplers in time. But I need to focus on appreciating the puers that I’ve already got on hand.

**eventually became

Because of Ros’ reply, I did a bit more reading and found Paul’s blog, which has a lot of useful information that I’ve only begun to explore. Including this backstory post ( https://white2tea.com/blogs/blog/15-years-in-china ) and a preceding one on his charitable giving, relevant to the OP by Keemunlover. Very interesting and informative!

Thanks for the replies, Ros, Ashmanra, and TeaEarlGreyHot. I didn’t mean to beat up on Paul too much! I haven’t researched him very much, but I am sure he must be a pretty awesome guy if he is so obsessed about Chinese teas. Just giving the initial impressions I have of the brand and explaining my trepidation in giving it a shot. And my concerns as far as my personal “value proposition” relationship to the brand.

I’m planning to grab their advent this year so you’ll have to let me know if you want me to pick anything up for you!

What a grand idea, and thank you for the offer! Now you have me thinking about their advent…

I skipped last year, so excited to have it again this year! :)

It is almost time for the advent tracking thread!

I saw Friday Afternoon had theirs for pre-order already, but didn’t want to start the thread ha ha. >.<

Wow!!!

I’m already plotting my Dammann order! Paul & Virginie is on the list!

Ooh…I remember this one being equally good on ice!

@gmathis, Oh snap! I was thinking of how it might taste iced! Especially when reading about the iced tea sachets of it sold by Harney, which make an entire gallon at a time! For now I’ll stick with more manageable iced batches. ;-)

Have you seen the boxes of 50 sachets that make a gallon each? The flavors are slightly different on some of them but it is still intriguing since we drink iced tea year ‘round down here. I think with the frequent sales codes it comes out to less than $1 a gallon.

@ashmanra, yes! I see iced tea pouches of two types: 15 pouches making a half gallon each, and 50 pouches making a gallon each. Good grief, I’d need to start buying spring water in 5-gal carboys to deal with that much iced tea— and throw parties!

I always resteep those 1/2 gallon pouches! It is strong enough for me and saves money.

Note – I combine the two steeps in a one gallon pitcher to balance the flavor.

Great to know about the resteep potential, and your balancing trick, thanks @ashmanra!

You’re welcome!